The Glories of Srimati Lalita Sakhi

topic posted Tue, November 14, 2006 - 10:16 AM by  Unsubscribed
Lalita-devi was born in the village of Karehla, and later on her father brought her to Uccagaon. Uccagaon is known as the place of her pastimes. There are still many remains of her having lived there, like a rock containing the imprints of her lotus feet. There are also imprints of some small utensils she used when she and the other sakhis fed Lord Krsna, when He would come to visit them. When the sun-rays fall on the imprints of those pots and plates, they glitter and shine. All the sakhis used to play with Krsna and Lalita in Uccagaon, and there are many places there where you can see their footprints to this day.

On the hill there is a slippery rock showing where a specific pastime was enacted in a marriage arena. There, the gopis arranged a special kind of marriage between Lalita and Krsna. This should not be misunderstood as a real marriage, but rather a play marriage, like the marriage that was once enacted between Srimati Radhika and Krsna. This is technically known as a Gandharva marriage.

In that pastime, Krsna was sitting beside Lalita, and the sakhis began to play mischievously. Visakha and some of the other sakhis tied Sri Lalita's veil to Krsna's pitambara (yellow shawl). Then suddenly, on the indication of Srimati Radhika, Rangadevi and other sakhis started to sing wedding songs, while Tungavidya and others uttered wedding mantras. The remaining sakhis showered flowers on Sri Krsna and Lalita. When Lalita noticed that something tricky was being done to her, she tried to run away; but because she was tied to Krsna's pitambara she could not do so. All the sakhis then surrounded the couple and married them.

Even today, one can see the signs of the slide on the hill, as well as the markings of ‘alta’ (red lac) from the gopi's feet. Although this pastime took place 5000 years ago, you can still visualize these signs with your own eyes.

Lalita is 27 days elder than Radharani. [According to the’ tithi’ astrological calculation, Lalita-devi's appearance day falls on the day before Srimati Radhika's appearance day.] She generally used to have the same loving mood towards both Radha and Krsna, yet she is more inclined to Srimati Radhika.

Sri Lalita-astakam:

composed by Srila Rupa Gosvami.

radha-mukunda-pada-sambhava-gharma-bindu
nirmanchanopakarani-krta-deha-laksam
uttunga-sauhrda-visesa-vasat pragalbham
devim gunaih sulalitam lalitam namami

[I offer pranama unto the haughty Sri Lalita-devi who is charmingly endowed with many beautiful, sweet qualities (sulalita). She has natural expertise in all arts (lalita), thus her seva self-manifests. She wipes away the glittering drops of perspiration which appear upon the lotus feet of Sri Radha and Madhava when They meet; and she is perpetually immersed in the most elevated mellow of sauhrda-rasa, or undivided absorption in fulfilling the heart's desire of her intimate friend Srimati Radhika. (Sri Lalitastakam, verse 1)]

There are four types of sakhis: svapaksa, vipaksa, tatastha and suhrt. Svapaksa means those sakhis who are totally favorably disposed towards Srimati Radhika. Vipaksa means those gopis who are totally favorably disposed towards Candravali and opposed to Radhika. Tatastha means those who are neutral towards Srimati Radhika and more favorably disposed towards Candravali. Suhrt means those who are more favorably disposed towards Srimati Radhika and neutral towards Candravali. Suhrt gopis never do anything unfavorable towards Srimati Radhika.

Lalita-devi and Visakha-devi are examples of gopis who are svapaksa to Srimati Radhika, Candravali is vipaksa, Bhadra is tatastha, and Syamala is suhrt.

The mood of Lalita is that she is always favorable towards the pastimes of Radha and Krsna, and she always tries to please Them. She engages in millions upon millions of endeavors to please Them, and to serve the droplets of Their activities. When Radha and Krsna meet and engage in amorous pastimes, Lalita wipes away the droplets of perspiration on Their lotus feet. This means that she is engaged day and night in the service of Their sweet pastimes.

There are two types of services in madhurya-rasa (conjugal rasa). One is in the mood of the manjaris and the other in the mood of the sakhis. Lalita always serves in the mood of a sakhi. One of her qualities is that she has some controlling nature. She can command both Radha and Krsna, but at the same time she is friendly disposed towards Them.

She is always immersed in the ocean of love. She is very beautiful and very sweet, but at the same time very sober and composed. Her heart is so sweet that she attracts the heart of all others, but at the same time she is pragalbha, which means she can speak harsh words and can thus control both Radha and Krsna.

raka-sudha-kirana-mandala-kanti-dandi
vaktra-sriyam cakita-caru-camuru-netram
radha-prasadhana-vidhana-kala-prasiddham
devim gunaih sulalitam lalitam namami

[I offer pranama unto Sri Lalita-devi whose beautiful face mocks the brilliance of the full moon, whose eyes are ever-restless like those of a startled doe, who is famous for her extraordinary expertise in the art of dressing Srimati Radhika, and who is the treasure-house of unlimited feminine qualities. (Sri Lalitastakam, verse 2)]

This verse begins by describing Srimati Lalita-devi's beauty. She is so beautiful that her beauty surpasses the combined beauty of millions of moons. Her eyes are said to be so restless that they can defeat the restlessness of the eyes of a female deer. Her specific quality is that she is very expert in applying make-up, and especially in arranging the hair decoration of Srimati Radhika. Although all the eight principle sakhis are very famous in putting on the bodily decorations and applying the make-up of Srimati Radhika, Lalita and Visakha are the most expert. Moreover, of these two, Lalita is considered the most proficient.

The pastime of decorating Srimati Radhika by Lalita and the other sakhis is described in "Govinda-lilamrta", written by Srila Krsnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami, and in "Krsna-bhavanamrta," written by Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura. Those who want to serve Radha and Krsna in the mood of a manjari should seriously take help from these scriptures. Sadhakas (devotional practitioners) can find pastimes such as the above-mentioned in those books, and they can try to be absorbed in them at the time of their devotional practices.

With reference to the verse above, Lalita and the other sakhis tell Srimati Radhika, "When you go to meet with Krsna, this is how You should behave with Him." They want Sri Krsna to be totally under the spell of Srimati Radhika.

While they are applying kajal, black eyeliner, they remind Srimati Radhika of Her previous pastimes with Sri Krsna. For example, once, when She was going out to meet Krsna, She forgot to put kajal on one of Her eyes, and Krsna Himself put it on, upon Her arrival. Similar pastimes are brought to the attention of Srimati Radhika at the time of putting on Her make-up, and in that way Her mood of bringing pleasure to Krsna is enhanced. When the gopis put the tilaka mark on Her forehead, they recite the kama-mantra, which still further inspires Her in Her mood of service to Krsna.

All these pastimes are arranged by Lalita-devi, and therefore she is described as the fountainhead of various wonderful qualities.

lasyollasad-bhujaga-satru-patatra-citra
pattamsukabharana-kanculikancitangim
gorocana-ruci-vigarhana-gaurimanam
devim gunaih sulalitam lalitam namami

[I offer pranama unto Sri Lalita-devi whose body is adorned with a splendid sari as brilliant as the multi-colored tail-feathers of an ecstatically dancing peacock, whose breast is covered with an exceedingly attractive blouse (kanculi), whose hair part is decorated with shimmering red vermilion, and who wears various necklaces and other jeweled ornaments. Her golden complexion defeats that of even gorocana ) (a bright golden pigment that comes when rain-water from the svati-naksatra constellation hits the hoof of a cow) and she possesses innumerable good qualities. (Sri Lalitastakam, verse 3)]

In this verse a resemblance is given with a peacock. At the commencement of the rainy season, the peacock becomes very happy. The peacock has been especially gifted by God to have beautiful colors on his feathers. He expresses his happiness on seeing the clouds by spreading his wings. Srimati Lalita-devi's dresses are so beautifully ornamented and colored, that they express the mood of a peacock showing his happiness by spreading his wings. Her sari, her various kinds of necklaces and all her ornaments brilliantly glitter, and all this glittering combined with the luster of her own body give a profound impression.

The word gorocana is also mentioned in this verse. In that connection there is a particular constellation called svati-naksatra. When rain water hits the hoof of a cow it becomes yellow, like the color of turmeric. This very special yellow color defeats even the shimmer of gold. The substance gorocana is also considered very costly.

This is the impression Lalita gives when she is serving Srimati Radhika with all her paraphernalia, ornaments and beauty.

dhurte vrajendra-tanaye tanu susthu-vamyam
ma daksina bhava kalankini laghavaya
radhe giram srnu hitam iti siksayantim
devim gunaih sulalitam lalitam namami

[I offer pranama unto Sri Lalita-devi, the charming treasure-house of all good qualities, who instructs Srimati Radhika in this way: "O Kalankini (unchaste one)! Radhe! Listen to my good instructions which are favorable for you! Vrajendra-nandana is very crafty (dhurta). Don't display Your mood of gentle submission (daksina bhava) to Him; instead, in all circumstances be contrary." (Sri Lalitastakam, verse 4)]

radham abhi vraja-pateh krtam atmajena
kutam manag api vilokya vilohitaksim
vag-bhangibhis tam acirena vilajjayantim
devim gunaih sulalitam namami

[I offer pranama unto the abode of all good qualities, the supremely charming Sri Lalita-devi, who, upon hearing Sri Krsna speak even a few sly words to Srimati Radhika, immediately becomes furious and shames Krsna with her biting, sarcastic remarks, "You are so truthful and simple-hearted, and such a chaste lover!" (Sri Lalitastakam, verse 5)]

Srimati Radhika is controlled by the extreme love of Lalita-sakhi. When She is with Lalita-sakhi, Lalita can even chastise Her: "When Krsna comes, You should remain very unsubmissive and enter a sulky mood." Radhika may reply, "What can I do? As soon as I see Krsna in the distance, My sulky mood goes away. I cannot maintain it." Then with a raised finger, Lalita says, "Don't give up your unsubmissive mood. You should chastise Krsna, for He has so many bad qualities. He is crooked and unchaste. He is a cheater. He will come to You early in the morning – and what will He do? He will hold onto Your feet and beg forgiveness. But don't believe anything He says. Don't become submissive. Instead, You should chastise Him!"

Sakhis are of two types and two moods: (1) daksina – right wing or submissive. This is called ghrta-sneha (like ghee), and it is a quality of Candravali's group. (2) vamya – contrary or unsubmissive. This is called madhu-sneha (like honey), and it is a quality of Radhika's group. [Ghee is wholesome, but without much taste, whereas honey is wholesome and also sweet]

Radhika's mood is called vamya (left-wing, contrary, or unsubmissive) and Candravali's mood is called daksina (right-wing, or submissive). Only those gopis in the mood of vamya can completely control Krsna. The two groups, that is, Radhika's group and Candravali's group, do not appreciate each other. Candravali criticizes Srimati Radhika and Her group, saying, "How can they dare to do maan (be in a sulky mood) towards Krsna? He is so sweet and lovely!" Srimati Radhika and Her group think, "Why does Candravali become so submissive towards Krsna!?" Srimati Radhika says, "One must apply a weapon to control Krsna. Why doesn't Candravali control Him like us? How can she serve Him if she is not like us?" Thus, both groups cannot appreciate each other's moods.

Lalita is the siksa-guru of all the gopis in Radhika's group, and also of Radhika Herself. Srila Rupa Gosvami writes: Lalita-devi sometimes chastises Radhika, saying, "Oh Kalankini, Oh unchaste one, [She will be called unchaste by Her in-laws, and for that reason She may try to be contrary, but Lalita-devi is telling Her here that ho matter what others say, She should still be contrary to Krsna.] don't become submissive to Krsna."

In this song, Srila Rupa Gosvami repeatedly offers his prostrated obeisances to Srimati Lalita-devi. If Sri Krsna approaches Srimati Radhika and uses some clever cheating words, Lalita-devi cannot tolerate it. In nisanta-lila, Srimati Radhika has been waiting all night for Krsna to come, and yet He doesn't come. He finally comes very early in the morning, with signs on His divine body that He has been with other gopis. Lalita-devi tells Him, "Don't come here. We don't want Your service. Where is Your beloved? You should go to her." His eyes are very red and other symptoms are there. Lalita then chastises Him, saying, "Yes, I know You, Krsna. You are very chaste, simple and honest." By her sharp and harsh words, she makes Krsna ashamed and causes Him to be shy. This is described in "Sri Krsna-bhavanamrta".

Krsna sometimes challenges the gopis in the forest: "Why have you come here? Don't you know I am Vrajendra, the King of Vrndavana? By picking flowers here, you are destroying My Vrndavana!"

At that time Lalita-devi says, "We know what kind of 'protector' You are. Actually you have never planted one seed or watered one tree. Instead, with Your hundreds of thousands of cows, it is You who destroys Vrndavana. We are the real owners of Vrndavana. We have planted every seed and watered every tree."

Krsna then says, "Don't you know who I am? I am a very religious person and I have never told a lie."

Then Srimati Lalita-devi says, "Yes, we know what type of religious person You are. We heard that when You were only seven days old, You killed a woman named Putana, who came as a mother to You. And which house in Vrndavana have You not stolen from? Are You the same religious person who stole all the clothing of the gopis? Are You the same religious person who performed rasa-lila with all the married gopis of Vrndavana?" Krsna then becomes ashamed.

vatsalya-vrnda-vasatim pasupala-rajnyah
sakhyanusiksana-kalasu gurum sakhinam
radha-balavaraja-jivita-nirvisesam
devim gunaih sulalitam lalitam namami

[I offer pranama unto the supremely charming Sri Lalita-devi, who possesses all divine qualities; who is also the recipient of Yasoda-devi's parental affection; the guru of all the sakhis, instructing them in the art of friendship; and the very life of both Srimati Radhika and the younger brother of Baladeva. (Sri Lalitastakam, verse 6)]

Without the presence of vatsalya-rasa (parental love), the glories of madhurya-rasa (conjugal love) do not manifest. One example occurs when Srimati Radhika goes with all Her sakhis to Nandagaon to cook. Mother Yasoda is there, but there is no disturbance. When Srimati Radhika goes to Nanda-bhavana with Lalita and the asta-sakhis (Radhika's eight most intimate friends), Yasoda-devi exhibits intense parental love towards Her – not less than the parental love she has towards her son Krsna. She also shows great affection to all the other sakhis and manjaris, because of their relation with Her.

All the asta-sakhis have so many excellent qualities, and therefore Srila Rupa Gosvami writes, "Of all the gopis, the asta-sakhis are the topmost." For example, Srimati Tungavidya-devi can speak with all types of birds and animals. She understands their language and can communicate with them. What can be greater than performing services to Srimati Radhika under the guidance of Lalita and Visakha and the other asta-sakhis? Lalita and Visakha are the siksa-gurus of all the gopis in the group of Srimati Radhika.

Lalita-devi's life and soul is Srimati Radhika and Krsna. Srila Rupa Gosvami prays, "I offer pranama again and again unto Srimati Lalita-devi."

yam kam api vraja-kule vrsabhanu-jayah
preksya sva-paksa-padavim anurudhyamanam
sadyas tad-ista-ghatanena krtarthayantim
devim gunaih sulalitam lalitam namami

["I offer pranama unto the supremely charming Sri Lalita-devi, the treasure house of all good qualities. Upon seeing any young maiden anywhere in Vraja and discerning that she is inclined towards her priya-sakhi Srimati Radhika, Lalita immediately tells Radha that She must accept this person in Her own party (svapaksa). Radha obeys Lalita, who thus fulfills that maiden's desires." (Sri Lalitastakam, verse 7)]

Lalita has many charming qualities. What is Her greatest quality – Her quality that is most favorable for the sadhakas of this world? If she sees in Vrndavana any gopi, or anyone who has even a slight touch of a scent of desire to serve Srimati Radhika, she immediately fulfills that gopi's desire and gives her the unlimited wealth of the service of Srimati Radhika's lotus feet. If one has a one-pointed desire to perform service to Srimati Radhika under the direct guidance of Srimati Lalita-devi, and furthermore under the shelter of Sri Rupa Manjari, that devotee may know that Lalita-devi's shelter is the only path by which one can achieve this.

radha-vrajendra-suta-sangama-ranga-caryam
varyam viniscitavatim akhilotsavebhyah
tam gokula-priya-sakhi-nikuramba-mukhyam
devim gunaih sulalitam lalitam namami

[I offer pranama unto Sri Lalita-devi, the embodiment of all divine virtues and the foremost of all the favorite sakhis of Gokula. Her primary task is providing pleasure for Sri Radha-Govinda by arranging Their meetings – this delightful seva surpasses the enjoyment of all the best festivals combined together. (Sri Lalitastakam, verse 8)]

Without the mercy of Lalita-devi, Giriraja or Yamuna, it is not possible to enter rasa-lila. The first and greatest is Srimati Lalita-devi herself, the second is Giriraja Govardhana and the third is Yamuna or Visakha-devi.

Lalita is the same age as Srimati Radhika, or she is twenty-seven days older. [It may happen one way in one yuga (millennium) and one way in another.] Like Radhika, Lalita also has all the qualities of being a yuthesvari – able to control her own group of subservient gopis. Why is she qualified to be a yuthesvari? If Bhadra, Syamala or Candravali can become yuthesvaris, then what to speak of Lalita-devi? However, despite being the same age as Radhika and having the qualification of a yuthesvari, still, the only goal of her life is to serve Srimati Radhika and to facilitate the meeting of Sri Sri Radha and Krsna. Her only happiness is the meeting of Radha and Krsna, and to achieve that goal, she never considers any amount of discomfort or suffering.

Sri Raghunatha dasa Gosvami prays,

padabjayos tava vina vara-dasyam eva
nanyat kadapi samaye kila devi yace
sakhyaya te mama namo 'stu namo 'stu nityam
dasyaya te mama raso 'stu raso 'stu satyam

[O Goddess! I shall never pray to You for anything but the excellent service of Your lotus feet. I offer my constant obeisances unto the idea of becoming Your friend, but I truly relish the idea of becoming Your maidservant. (Vilap-kusumanjali text 16)]

"Oh, I offer my obeisances millions of times to the position of a sakhi of Srimati Radhika. But my only real desire, birth after birth, is to attain the service of Srimati Radhika in the mood of a manjari. I have no desire to become equal to Radhika, like the sakhis."

Srila Raghunatha dasa Gosvami also prays, "I will never leave the feet of Radhika to go to Krsna. Even if Krsna goes to Dvaraka and calls me there, I will not go. However, if out of some madness Radhika has somehow gone to Dvaraka, I will fly even faster than Garuda to serve Her there." (Svaniyama dasakam, verses 3 and 4)

nandann amuni lalita-guna-lalitani
padyani yah pathati nirmala-drstir astau
pritya vikarsati janam nija-vrnda-madhye
tam kirtida-pati-kulojjvala-kalpa-valli

[If a person with a cheerful and pure heart recites this astakam in praise of Lalita-devi, he will be affectionately brought into Srimati Radhika's own group of sakhis. Lalita-devi is superbly ornamented with beauty, grace and charm, and, along with Srimati Radhika, is the effulgent wish-fulfilling creeper (kalpa-valli) of Vrsabhanu Maharaja's family that winds around the kalpa-vrksa of Krsna. (Sri Lalitastakam, verse 9)]

In conclusion, Srimati Lalita-devi is the wish-fulfilling tree of the prema-seva (service in love) of Sri Sri Radha and Krsna. Whoever chants this Lalita-astakam will make Radha and Krsna happy. Moreover, Lalita-devi herself will be happy, and all our desires will be fulfilled.

Written by: Srila Narayana Maharaja see tribes.tribe.net/gurudeva/
Editorial Advisors: Sripad Madhava Maharaja and Sripad Brajanatha dasa
Translators: Sripad Damodara Maharaja and
Editors: Krsna Kamini dasi and Syamarani dasi
Transcriber: Vasanti dasi
Typist: Janaki dasi
Proofreader: Krsna-kamini dasi
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    Re: The Glories of Srimati Lalita Sakhi

    Mon, November 20, 2006 - 2:53 PM
    Tulsi,
    I cannot understand Lalita devi's loving moods but this article kept me from being in more maya than I would have been if I didn't just read it. It just goes to show me what a fool I am because I didn't know any of this. Thanks for printing it.
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      Re: The Glories of Srimati Lalita Sakhi

      Tue, January 2, 2007 - 2:03 PM
      Sure, no prob. Lalita Sakhi is the best friend Radha and Krsna has ever had. Malati, on the other hand, can be a bit of a cry-baby. She should accept the fact that Krsna prefers to kiss Lalita.
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        Re: The Glories of Srimati Lalita Sakhi

        Tue, January 2, 2007 - 2:08 PM
        Krishna may prefer to kiss Lalita but I always commisserate in my heart with whoever is in the madness of separation. At least it sounds nice to me. Maybe I am just a little angry too at Lalita for the way she treats Radharani sometimes but you know better than me, I don't even know about Malati and Lalita I have only heard a miniscule amount of what they do.
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          Re: The Glories of Srimati Lalita Sakhi

          Tue, January 2, 2007 - 2:09 PM
          I know Lalita only helps Radharani but sometimes it seems she embarasses her.
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            Re: The Glories of Srimati Lalita Sakhi

            Tue, January 2, 2007 - 2:15 PM
            We are followers of Lalita and her friends I am fully satisfied with that. I just am attracted to the whole separation thing, including siding with Radharani and seemingly going against Krishna and making Him submit to Radharani and the gopis.
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            Re: The Glories of Srimati Lalita Sakhi

            Tue, January 2, 2007 - 2:26 PM
            Are you kidding me? Lalita can't do wrong! She's the perfect servant, who will do WHATEVER Krsna asks of her in any of the worlds! She's the only one who REALLY puts herself on the line to serve him.
            I've never even heard of Lalita embarrassing Radharani, but if she did, it's divine. How are is anyone going to evolve if they don't suffer? Lalita knows this, and that's why she's considered the Guru of Radharani. Radharani wants to be rugged like that too, so she learns.
            If you are a little mad at Lalita, I'm very sorry to hear it, but it's only human emotion. When you awaken to your true spiritual identity, you'll be happy when you see how Lalita came through for you.
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              Re: The Glories of Srimati Lalita Sakhi

              Tue, January 2, 2007 - 2:35 PM
              Please forgive all my speculation as well. I'd like to say a bunch more stuff here, but I'm tired of being a sahajiya. I want bhakti.
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                Re: The Glories of Srimati Lalita Sakhi

                Tue, January 2, 2007 - 4:13 PM
                Lalita embarasses Radharani to bring the Divine Couple closer together sometimes, I'm sure Radharani likes it. Only I don't. I want to see Krishna submit to Radharani always, and to her friends the gopis. Does this make me a sahajiya? Or a glorifier of Radharani here at Radha tribe.
                I don't care whether Lalita is a devotee of Krishna or not, I know she secretly serves Radharani over Krishna, I just forgot. Because some devotees really do want to serve Him over her, but I can't understand it. What is wrong with me? I just want to serve her, is that so bad? No I can't say I am truly on that platform yet, but I can't say anything else! When I die all I want is pictures of Radharani in my room and not Krishna. And I want to hear mantras and prayers glorifying her. But alas I won't be able to! Because who authorised me to become a Radha bhakta(bhaktin)? There is no such thing is there? And even if there is a group of devotees who worship Srimati Radharani in Vrndavana, who worship Her as the Supreme I don't wish to join them.
                Why O Why can't I worship her as I please? As my life and soul, that's all that I ask? But if I did someone would recognise me as a pretender, a sahajiya, and say"O why is she devoting herself to Radharani? Who does she think she is, some kind of manjari or something?" I could not take such criticism, because it is true. Nowhere does it say we can become devotees of Radharani.
                So what am I to do at the time of death, think of Krishna? Look at a picture of Krishna when I die? I couldn't! It has to be her! I am not even qualified to speak her name and if I had all this paraphernalia around me in my room at the time of death and nothing about Krishna then the devotees would know who I think I am attached to, and this would be worse than death to me. I don't know what to do. I can't let the secret out who I like(Radharani)or who I am. I can't stand the pain of separation which grows worse all the time! I don't know what to do!
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        Re: The Glories of Srimati Lalita Sakhi

        Tue, January 2, 2007 - 4:26 PM
        I don't know who to follow anymore but if Malati is in separation more than Lalita then I say let Lalita kiss Krishna, I don't mind, but I will follow Malati and try to console her in her madness of separation, even if I go mad myself!
        • Re: The Glories of Srimati Lalita Sakhi

          Tue, January 2, 2007 - 4:37 PM
          I have a question. All of the stories on this tribe...are they real or did you make them up? I'm sorry if the question is rude, I don't know how else to ask.
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            Re: The Glories of Srimati Lalita Sakhi

            Tue, January 2, 2007 - 5:01 PM
            I only relay stories from sastra, but bhakti makes them up.
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              Re: The Glories of Srimati Lalita Sakhi

              Tue, January 2, 2007 - 5:03 PM
              He's does know his lilas pretty well, but he gets creative sometimes.
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                Re: The Glories of Srimati Lalita Sakhi

                Tue, January 2, 2007 - 5:56 PM
                Ahem! The pastimes I just quoted are from sastra, scripture, by the goswamis of Vrndavana who are gopis and manjaris in the actual pastimes with Radha and Krishna in the spiritual world, and they are sometimes relating their very own activities here on Earth while acting as men. The stories about Krishna placing a pomegranite in Radharani's hand and the two or three other ones I quoted above were all from the same book, Ujjal Nilmani by Srila Rupa Gosami pada, Rupa manjari in the spiritual world. And I read recently where Lalita embarassed Radharani with her words somehow in front of Krishna but I forgot the pastime what to speak of where it is in the books but no these are not made up. The goswamis could speak on these pastimes for hours and they heard these things from their gurus and Lord Caitanya who is Krishna Himself in the mood of Radharani, he wanted to know the intimate feelings of Radharani for Him, her love for Him and had to accept a lesser role in order to understand it in the proper mood, to "taste it" fully as she does.
                And you don't have to wait just because you are fifteen in order to get a guru. Krishna gives one a guru if they are sincere and ready for it. I didn't just make that up, it says that somewhere, don't ask me where.
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                  Re: The Glories of Srimati Lalita Sakhi

                  Tue, January 2, 2007 - 6:06 PM
                  Okay, the pomegranate story was the only one I've heard you relate that I wasn't sure about. Yes, these lilas are real to the best of my knowlegde.
                  A lot of the recent stories we've been discussing are the writings of Rupa Goswami. Caitanya Mahaprabhu came to taste rasa, and he instilled the pastimes into the heart of Rupa Goswami, his associate, to distribute to the world.
                • Re: The Glories of Srimati Lalita Sakhi

                  Tue, January 2, 2007 - 6:06 PM
                  Wait...are you saying that I am not sincere?
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                    Re: The Glories of Srimati Lalita Sakhi

                    Tue, January 2, 2007 - 6:20 PM
                    Krishna says in the Bhagavad Gita that if one wishes to worship the Demigods for material benefits he will make that person's faith strong in that particular demigod. I wasn't going to tell you because I didn't want to upset you but since you asked worship of Ganesh is not equal to Krishnaism, so you have to ask yourself whether you want to go back to Godhead or are you desiring to worship Ganesh for some other more material benediction.
                    But I think you are sincere. Just start out worshipping Ganesh, he removes all obstacles, and eventually you will come to Krishna, that is the great thing about the "Vedic System" as it is called by devotees. Or just skip all that and worship Krishna directly. There is the famous story(true)that a german man came to India to see who was God and found that all the demigods had a job to do, only one, Krishna was playing on His flute. He intelligently concluded that "this is God" and then became a diciple of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta, Srila Prabhupada'a guru.
                    Don't worry, we all like you nameless, and if you are friends with the devotees then Krishna will like you too.
                    • Re: The Glories of Srimati Lalita Sakhi

                      Tue, January 2, 2007 - 7:11 PM
                      I appreciate your honesty and strong belief of Krishna. But do you forget that all of these are just manifestations of the Supreme God? Every path leads to God, Bhakti. Yes, I am new to this. But this, I know.
                      • Re: The Glories of Srimati Lalita Sakhi

                        Tue, January 2, 2007 - 7:40 PM
                        " But do you forget that all of these are just manifestations of the Supreme God? "

                        Not exactly, Krishna is known as Brhat Bhagavan, or Svayam Bhagavan. Which means He does represent a manifestation of God, rather He IS God. Yes every path will eventually come to God, but the process of Bhakti is direct and natural whereas as all other processes are mechanical. In the spriritual realm only 3 things exist; God, the devotee, and devotional service(bhakti). There are no rituals there, or philosophical speculation, nor is anyone standing on their head trying to do ashtanga yoga, simply everyone is engaged in serving the Lord with love and devotion.


                        Another note, demigods are REAL deputed agents who work on behalf of the Lord, Krishna. There is a demigod for all aspects of the material sphere, such beings have a birth and death and are simply put in that position due to the results of their past karma. Demigods do not exist in the spiritual world.
          • Re: The Glories of Srimati Lalita Sakhi

            Tue, January 2, 2007 - 6:48 PM
            Nameless , Bhakti and Tulasi are often quarreling. I have not read what pastimes they have posted throughly but generally the devotees would only post scriptural pastimes, as such they are the most real thing in this world.
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              Re: The Glories of Srimati Lalita Sakhi

              Tue, January 2, 2007 - 8:19 PM
              Nameless never quarrels, what are you talking about here?
              • Re: The Glories of Srimati Lalita Sakhi

                Tue, January 2, 2007 - 8:26 PM
                I was informing Nameless that "Bhakti and Tulasi are often quarreling"


                I have read some post of Bhakti which are not of true pastimes but are full of sarcasm due the quarrel, something about a toy boat and dieties and such? I am sure you know what i am talking about
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                Re: The Glories of Srimati Lalita Sakhi

                Tue, January 2, 2007 - 8:39 PM
                I didn't mean to assume anything Bhakta. The story is real if if's from Ujjvalla Nilamani, I know there are a lot of stories like that in there, but I haven't read it yet. You've studied a lot, and as far as I'm concerned, you're doing great in your sadhana. It's too bad that Guru wars have tainted your mind, but other than that, your solid. I'm glad you care, thats all.
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                  Re: The Glories of Srimati Lalita Sakhi

                  Tue, January 2, 2007 - 8:41 PM
                  Nitainanada, you've been more than tolerant and peaceful. jaya jaya to you.
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                    Re: The Glories of Srimati Lalita Sakhi

                    Tue, January 2, 2007 - 11:02 PM
                    ... but tolerance pays off sometimes, especially when dealing with newer devotees. bhakti has offered a lot to this tribe and told some sweet hari-katha. btw I was the one who said I wanted to put my tiny dieties in a Polly Pockets boat.
                    • Re: The Glories of Srimati Lalita Sakhi

                      Wed, January 3, 2007 - 3:40 AM
                      He did not reply to the polly pockets post with sarcasm?? I am just concerned that our guests may not be able to discern what is sarcasm and what is sastra.
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                        Re: The Glories of Srimati Lalita Sakhi

                        Wed, January 3, 2007 - 6:46 AM
                        Nityananda,
                        I just heard part of a lecture you gave on Srimait Radharani's appearance day(birthday to all the guests). Are you the famous Nityananda who was a temple president in the time of Srila Prabhupada and who later started the ritvik philosophy even before the infamous Krishna Kant Desai carried on in your footsteps, or was that someone else?
                        True I gave my benediction to Tulasi laced with sarcasm that she could play with her Deities on a toy boat. I think that would be a little obvious even to the guests that something other than pure devotional service was being discussed. If she and I were both liberated Tulasi would be in Krishna's camp and I would be in another's but that is all pure speculation at this point.
                        "Nameless" you have entered into the realm of "Hinduism", that group of people on the other side of the Sidhu river known as "Hindus". There is no more of a hodge podge of various worshippers in the world than this. You will hear so many stories that "Hindu" people blindly accept just because they are told to do so, or are born into it. But everything has to be supported by three things, guru sadhus and sastra.
                        So if a guru says something he has to be able to quote from the sastra, the holy sciptures in order to support it, to verify whether it is true or not. And naturally the sadhus, the saintly devotees, will agree with what's right. So then we come to the point that all roads lead to the same place. This saying is from the time of the Romans when "All roads lead to Rome". It is not a Krishna Conscious saying.
                        Say one purchases a ticket on a plane to Chicago. He wants to go to Chicago. Chicago is his destination. He gets on the right flight. Will he end up in Los Angeles? Not unless there is some major foul up. This is a material example but generally if we buy a ticket to Rome or London or Paris we will end up at those places and not someplace else.
                        So if we want to go to Krishna's planet we have to pray to Krishna. We have to recognise Krishna as the Supreme, we have to understand the Supreme Lord Krishna as He describes Himself in the Bhagavad-Gita as it is, without anyone's own "interpretations" thrown in. Interpretation is necessary when we don't understand the point, not otherwise. We don't need someone telling us the real meaning is something else when it is not. When Krishna says"Worship Me and you will come to Me" we don't need swomeone telling us to really worship someone else and all paths lead to the same place. Otherwise the next time you want to go somewhere just start driving in any direction and see if you arrive at your destination. You might get there sooner or later, but why waste time?
                        Srila Prabhupada described that Krishna Consciousness is the direct route, the simplest and most direct. And it is described that even a moment's association with a pure devotee of the Lord(such as Srila Prabhupada)is the most valuable thing. Please if you are at all serious take the opportunity to browse over at www.krishna.com and read, if nothing more, just a few lines written by Srila Prabhupada himself and go to a temple sometime. Most Hindus do celebrate Krishna's birthday no matter who they choose for their isthadeva, which I guess means worshipable Deity. But when you go to a temple and get the association of the devotees, honor the remnants of foodstuffs offered with love and devotion to the Supreme Lord in His Deity form on the altar, and hear a class...everything is spiritual at the temples, they are like spiritual oasis's in the material world. It cannot be described by me online how trancendental the experience is, we just have to go there to take advantage of it. Maybe when you are eighteen? Or else next time you go to a place near you where you get permission to spend some time there? Just a few hours at a Sunday Feast will change your whole life. Please do it, please!
                        • Re: The Glories of Srimati Lalita Sakhi

                          Wed, January 3, 2007 - 8:28 AM
                          Bhakti interesting reply, well if you look at my profile you will see my age as 28 and my photos should show you that I could be no older than that. (God bless the brahmanas lifeslyle,lol) I am not the founder of Ritvik philosophy nor an advocate of it. I am a full time servant at ISKCON Dallas and one of my main functions is in the congregational office, I also do bhakta programs. I am not sure why you wanted me to be labled as a ritvik since i have never spoke anything in that regard. Is it because I repremand you for your constant argument with devotees. Srila Prabhupada has stated that argument should be saved for the non devotees, the atheist. To excessively argue with devotees is simply a request for fall down. Hare Krishna
                          Your servant
                          Nityananda Ram Das
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                            Re: The Glories of Srimati Lalita Sakhi

                            Wed, January 3, 2007 - 10:19 AM
                            No sorry I wasn't trying to argue, or falsely accuse you, I just thought you might be him, that's all. And I realised I didn't properly respond to Nameless, since she was speaking about the worship of various demigods as equal paths to the same goal, not various religions necessarily. So I agree with Nityanananda, it says that Vishnu is the actual enjoyer of all sacrifices offered to demigods. There are 33 million demigods, and He is the actual enjoyer. They offer whatever is offered to them to Him. He is the Supreme enjoyer of all sacrifices as stated in the Bhagavad-Gita?
                            Eventually the worshippers of demigods come to realise that they should be worshipping Him, the object of all sacrifices, Vishnu. So yes it does say somewhere that one can worship the various demigods and that the worship does go to Vishnu, but this is not the direct method. Is this correct Nityananda Prabhu, is this your understanding? Please not I am not trying to argue here at all on this point, I am just seeking verification from someone more advanced than I am. Guru, sadhu and sastra you know.
                            • Re: The Glories of Srimati Lalita Sakhi

                              Wed, January 3, 2007 - 12:00 PM
                              I think that this verse will purport your question.
                              Bhagavad-gītā As It Is 6.47

                              yoginām api sarveṣāḿ

                              mad-gatenāntar-ātmanā

                              śraddhāvān bhajate yo māḿ

                              sa me yuktatamo mataḥ

                              SYNONYMS

                              yoginām — of yogīs; api — also; sarveṣām — all types of; mat-gatena — abiding in Me, always thinking of Me; antaḥ-ātmanā — within himself; śraddhā-vān — in full faith; bhajate — renders transcendental loving service; yaḥ — one who; mām — to Me (the Supreme Lord); saḥ — he; me — by Me; yukta-tamaḥ — the greatest yogī; mataḥ — is considered.

                              TRANSLATION

                              And of all yogīs, the one with great faith who always abides in Me, thinks of Me within himself, and renders transcendental loving service to Me — he is the most intimately united with Me in yoga and is the highest of all. That is My opinion.

                              PURPORT

                              The word bhajate is significant here. Bhajate has its root in the verb bhaj, which is used when there is need of service. The English word "worship" cannot be used in the same sense as bhaj. Worship means to adore, or to show respect and honor to the worthy one. But service with love and faith is especially meant for the Supreme Personality of Godhead. One can avoid worshiping a respectable man or a demigod and may be called discourteous, but one cannot avoid serving the Supreme Lord without being thoroughly condemned. Every living entity is part and parcel of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and thus every living entity is intended to serve the Supreme Lord by his own constitution. Failing to do this, he falls down. The Bhāgavatam (11.5.3) confirms this as follows:

                              ya eṣāḿ puruṣaḿ sākṣād

                              ātma-prabhavam īśvaram

                              na bhajanty avajānanti

                              sthānād bhraṣṭāḥ patanty adhaḥ

                              "Anyone who does not render service and neglects his duty unto the primeval Lord, who is the source of all living entities, will certainly fall down from his constitutional position."

                              In this verse also the word bhajanti is used. Therefore, bhajanti is applicable to the Supreme Lord only, whereas the word "worship" can be applied to demigods or to any other common living entity. The word avajānanti, used in this verse of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, is also found in the Bhagavad-gītā. Avajānanti māḿ mūḍhāḥ: "Only the fools and rascals deride the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Lord Kṛṣṇa." Such fools take it upon themselves to write commentaries on the Bhagavad-gītā without an attitude of service to the Lord. Consequently they cannot properly distinguish between the word bhajanti and the word "worship."

                              The culmination of all kinds of yoga practices lies in bhakti yoga. All other yogas are but means to come to the point of bhakti in bhakti-yoga. Yoga actually means bhakti-yoga; all other yogas are progressions toward the destination of bhakti-yoga. From the beginning of karma-yoga to the end of bhakti-yoga is a long way to self-realization. Karma-yoga, without fruitive results, is the beginning of this path. When karma-yoga increases in knowledge and renunciation, the stage is called jñāna-yoga. When jñāna-yoga increases in meditation on the Supersoul by different physical processes, and the mind is on Him, it is called aṣṭāńga-yoga. And when one surpasses the aṣṭāńga-yoga and comes to the point of the Supreme Personality of Godhead Kṛṣṇa, it is called bhakti yoga, the culmination. Factually, bhakti-yoga is the ultimate goal, but to analyze bhakti-yoga minutely one has to understand these other yogas. The yogī who is progressive is therefore on the true path of eternal good fortune. One who sticks to a particular point and does not make further progress is called by that particular name: karma-yogī, jñāna-yogī or dhyāna-yogī, rāja-yogī, haṭha-yogī, etc. If one is fortunate enough to come to the point of bhakti-yoga, it is to be understood that he has surpassed all other yogas. Therefore, to become Kṛṣṇa conscious is the highest stage of yoga, just as, when we speak of Himālayan, we refer to the world's highest mountains, of which the highest peak, Mount Everest, is considered to be the culmination.

                              It is by great fortune that one comes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness on the path of bhakti-yoga to become well situated according to the Vedic direction. The ideal yogī concentrates his attention on Kṛṣṇa, who is called Śyāmasundara, who is as beautifully colored as a cloud, whose lotuslike face is as effulgent as the sun, whose dress is brilliant with jewels and whose body is flower-garlanded. Illuminating all sides is His gorgeous luster, which is called the brahmajyoti. He incarnates in different forms such as Rāma, Nṛsiḿha, Varāha and Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and He descends like a human being, as the son of mother Yaśodā, and He is known as Kṛṣṇa, Govinda and Vāsudeva. He is the perfect child, husband, friend and master, and He is full with all opulences and transcendental qualities. If one remains fully conscious of these features of the Lord, he is called the highest yogi.

                              This stage of highest perfection in yoga can be attained only by bhakti-yoga, as is confirmed in all Vedic literature:

                              yasya deve parā bhaktir

                              yathā deve tathā gurau

                              tasyaite kathitā hy arthāḥ

                              prakāśante mahātmanaḥ

                              "Only unto those great souls who have implicit faith in both the Lord and the spiritual master are all the imports of Vedic knowledge automatically revealed." [ŚU 6.23]

                              Bhaktir asya bhajanaḿ tad ihāmutropādhi-nairāsyenāmuṣmin manaḥ-kalpanam, etad eva naiṣkarmyam. "Bhakti means devotional service to the Lord which is free from desire for material profit, either in this life or in the next. Devoid of such inclinations, one should fully absorb the mind in the Supreme. That is the purpose of naiṣkarmya." (Gopāla-tāpanī Upaniṣad 1.15)

                              These are some of the means for performance of bhakti, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, the highest perfectional stage of the yoga system.

                              Thus end the Bhaktivedanta Purports to the Sixth Chapter of the Śrīmad Bhagavad-gītā in the matter of Dhyāna-yoga.
              • Re: The Glories of Srimati Lalita Sakhi

                Wed, January 3, 2007 - 11:24 AM
                I was not starting a quarrel. I was just mentioning one of the basic teachings of Sanatana Dharma.
                • Re: The Glories of Srimati Lalita Sakhi

                  Wed, January 3, 2007 - 12:02 PM

                  "I was not starting a quarrel."
                  I do not think anyone accused you of doing so.

                  I did mention however to you that there is often a quarrel between bhakti and tulasi but i think however any misconceptions were cleared in the post that followed.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
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                    Re: The Glories of Srimati Lalita Sakhi

                    Wed, January 3, 2007 - 12:37 PM
                    Nityananda Prabhu,
                    If I had known you were not the other Nityananda I would have taken it easier with you too, not that it is my position to say anything to the other Nityananda but he did seem to deviate a little from the strict Krishna Consciousness as we know it, or "Sanatana Dharma", the nature of the soul.
                    The true Dharma or nature of the soul cannot be separated from it, just like fire is not fire without heat or water is not water without liquidity. The nature of the spirit soul is to serve, and bhakti means service to Krishna alone. That alone is our real nature and that alone will satisfy us.
                    Thank you for your informative verse on the subject it was very appropriate.
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